Toresella's ghalias retiuola

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This topic contains 4 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  MarcoP 1 year, 11 months ago.

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  • #200 Score: 0

    Agricola
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    By coincidence I came here in the old mailing list:

    http://www.voynich.net/Arch/2001/05/msg00026.html

    1.
    Browsed through and hit this: ghalias retiuola.

    Cite:

    “One really has to wonder about the strong fascination contained
    in this message from the past where Master Ghino [who commissioned an
    alchemical herbal that Toresella discusses] would have us believe that
    someone was held prisoner of a spell by the herb ‘ghalias retiuola’:

    ‘Whoever has anointed his hands with the lotion of this herb, then
    touched whomever he wanted, would obtain from that person any favour
    that he might like.”

    App. this is from
    Sergio Toresella’s paper on “alchemical herbals”. … Below I’m attaching a summary of Toresella’s article, taken from my Historical Precedents list..

    Searching on google I found….nothing.

    Any idea from where this is, and where “ghalias retiuola” refers to ?

     

  • #202 Score: 1

    MarcoP
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    “erba Gallia” is mentioned in this book (Magia delle Erbe). I guess it could be the same plant as “ghalias”
    https://books.google.it/books?id=9YxiWKv2370C&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=%22gallia%22

    “retiola” is “small net” in Latin – this name could refer to the supposed “capturing” power of the plant, but I don’t know…

    Why are you so interested in this specific passage? If it is for the type of effect (the power to receive favours) I am sure I have seen similar herbal charms elsewhere and I can try digging them out.

    Pages from Ghino’s herbal are discussed here:
    https://medium.com/viridisgreen/ghinos-herbal-laurenziana-redi-165-erba-colombina-7437a4df4cb2
    https://medium.com/viridisgreen/laurenziana-redi-165-erba-lapatio-f6f2936c0ddd

  • #206 Score: 0

    Agricola
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    really amazing that you already answered this, I was really stunned that I could not find these terms on google, but these are just “standard” words…

    So retiola is Latin and

    ghalias is long for gallia, but is it changed from an Italian perspective or Latin?

    If ghalias is corrupted from Latin into Italian, it would imply that “retiola” is also Italian. Don’t know if that sounds logical to you, but then retiola should have a specific Italian meaning as well.

    These are interesting because of the women in the pictures seem to have an interaction with the plants, by turning their hands or by “laying on of hands”. I am trying to find a plausible angle for that.

     

    ‘Whoever has anointed his hands with the lotion of this herb, then
    touched whomever he wanted, would obtain from that person any favour
    that he might like.”

     

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  • #235 Score: 1

    MarcoP
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    really amazing that you already answered this, I was really stunned that I could not find these terms on google, but these are just “standard” words… So retiola is Latin and ghalias is long for gallia, but is it changed from an Italian perspective or Latin? If ghalias is corrupted from Latin into Italian, it would imply that “retiola” is also Italian. Don’t know if that sounds logical to you, but then retiola should have a specific Italian meaning as well.

    I am afraid this stretches my linguistic knowledge. I think that Gallia also has an (obvious) Latin origin, so both names could be Latin. Also, in the XV Century Italian was slightly closer to Latin than it is now. I honestly don’t know. Modern Italian for “small net” is “retina” / “reticella” / “retino”.

    These are interesting because of the women in the pictures seem to have an interaction with the plants, by turning their hands or by “laying on of hands”. I am trying to find a plausible angle for that. ‘Whoever has anointed his hands with the lotion of this herb, then touched whomever he wanted, would obtain from that person any favour that he might like.”

    I understand. I will see if I can find anything similar elsewhere.

     

  • #246 Score: 0

    MarcoP
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    I have checked Toresella’s paper and it doesn’t add much to what we already know about “ghalias retiuola” – the passage is quoted at the end of the paper (p.62).

    At p.60 fig.24 the first page of Ghino’s herbal is reproduced.

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